Curse

Gli · Oct 03, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

Vanity skins should remain rare and hard to get, if you dont like it then get the money to buy it.

What we like has nothing to do with anything. The only thing that matters is what ANet wants.

Obviously, a game economy that has single items that sell for an order of magnitude more than the maximum cash a character can carry, is totally out of control. If the designers had wanted people to pay more than a million gold for an item, they'd have let us carry more than 100k. If what they're doing ruins the nominal volume of the economy, that's probably just what they want to accomplish.

supaet · Oct 03, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

What we like has nothing to do with anything. The only thing that matters is what ANet wants.

Obviously, a game economy that has single items that sell for an order of magnitude more than the maximum cash a character can carry, is totally out of control. If the designers had wanted people to pay more than a million gold for an item, they'd have let us carry more than 100k. If what they're doing ruins the nominal volume of the economy, that's probably just what they want to accomplish.

Just look at the cost of FOW armor, they're worth more gold than your storage can hold. It is reasonable for some items to cost 100+xx ectos because there are fow armor! how many weapons like that you have to sell to get one set?

Roshi_ikkyu · Oct 03, 2006, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Take the only items out that sell for 100k and your left with a ruined economy.
More then a handful of player have over 100k, and its easy enough to get to that lvl in game play. It's not over night but it does happen.

The millions of gold is still going to be there, it'll just mean nothing. Those players will have no items to waste there money on.
I don't see that as an economy.

Evls Pwn · Oct 03, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Can Some1 here show me the source of this info? Pc Gamer mentions it, i have the article right in front of me, but anet has yet to confirm. I think this is just rumor spreading, and for that reason I'm holding on to my golds. And if it is true, meh... I have enough gold right now to buy the new and "improved" cheap inscriptioned items.

I have a feeling if this happens, the game will degenerate into the D2 LoD situation of mega overbuffs.

Two April Mornings · Oct 03, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evls Pwn

I have a feeling if this happens, the game will degenerate into the D2 LoD situation of mega overbuffs.

I feel you.

Akhilleus · Oct 03, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenryo

The idea behind the crystallines is that a large portion (the lion's share) of the cost of a 15^50 req 8 crystalline goes towards the fact that it is 15^50. A req 8 alone will only run you 100k plus some ecto, and a req 8 purp can be obtained for 100k flat or even under sometimes. (lets be honest, 100k is chump change... you can make it with a day of faction farming). Where does that extra 700 ectos worth of cost come from? Of course, from the fact that it's 15^50.

On that note, you might ask yourself WHY so many people want crystallines. Do they look cool? Personally I think they look marginally worse than the dubious longsword. Why, then, are they so sought after? They're in high demand simply because of their rarity. Having a crystalline is a status symbol: a huge sign on the front of your forehead that screams "I am not a noob". How much easier will be obtaining a req 8 clean crystalline be after the changes? Harder in fact I'd say, because demand will skyrocket for them. However, how much easier will obtaining a 15^50 req 8 be? much, much, much easier. And I say this even though I presently don't own a crystalline (did I mention they were ugly?). The price gap between that clean and the perfect is the mark of countless hours of work that really should be worth something. I haven't put those hours in. But someone out there has, and I think we should respect that accomplishment as well as respecting the hours I put in to obtain my somewhat less breathtaking gear.

Oh ya, I forgot to mention this: Am I elitist? you bet your malourished poor little arse I am. I'm elitist because I'm protecting my investments. Not my cash investment, which is presently going into buying runes and materials so I can increase my wealth in nightfall, but my TIME investment. Don't want to work for nice looking gear? I think thats too bad for you. I'll shed a tear for you someday when I'm excessively bored and picking my nose isn't an option. But I really think you should be glad enough that your gear has the same stats as mine and stop the peasant whining that mine looks better. Of COURSE mine looks better... it costs more. Its like whining that my Rolls looks better than your Chevy.

Here's a novel idea for those without: try working. You'd be surprised at the payout... even if you live off welfare in France!

btw: the "you" in the above paragraphs isn't precicely targeted at anyone in particular do please don't take offense

it is, rather, targeted at that collective presence of whining that seems to think things should be handed out for free. If you belong to that group and feel slighted by my comments... well, perhaps that was the intent.

i'd like to shake your hand.
i know plenty of people who share your opinion, who are angry that anet is throwing their future options out the window, and understand it.
i, myself, would be FAR more upset with this update had it taken place a year ago, when i was arguably "upper-middle-class" than now...as it would kill 1 aspect of my metagame permenantly. now, its approaching that time in my life when gaming as a whole is coming to an end, and so personally this doesnt effect me much, regardless, its annoying because...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evls Pwn

I have a feeling if this happens, the game will degenerate into the D2 LoD situation of mega overbuffs.

...as the above said...
which, is as i've said before, this is the EXACT same mistake that was made with diablo2 LoD 1.1 patch...blizzard figured it would be a good idea to cater to people clambering over their cries for handouts, and made the best items in the game easily accessible. the people who hated the hours of farming finally got what they wanted.
what happened?
blizzard effectivly nuked the upper and middle classess off of the face of the diablo2 world, and left it with nothing but the very whiners who had asked for their handouts...after a few months they got bored, and the game devulged from the best MMORPG i have EVER played, into a universally agreeable crapfest.
the same people who waste hours farming, are the same people who spend hours coming up with unique builds, different styles of play, etc, etc...when they left the game, nothing was left but morons playing cookiecutter builds handed to them, and the whole thing came down to essentially a rock, paper, scissors of FOTM builds.

i do not wish this fate upon guildwars, or its players.
if anything, i wish anet would make some even rarer skins than crystallines, rare enough towards even i would have a hard time affording one. why? working towards an end, is fun. whats the goal of a game? to beat it. and in so doing, lies the fun within...the act of ending the game experience is not fun (at least for me), its getting there thats entertaining.
all this update will end up doing is to shorten the journey by a little, and as a byproduct, shorten its lifespan. and i tell you this much, if it had not been for the fact that my collection still needed work after ch2, i would have quit then, because ch2s gameplay was so totally half-assed, that it forced MANY people to fall back on meta-game activities (collecting, pvp, farming, titles, etc). its about time anet stop knocking these things off 1 by 1.
rank is just as much a vanity as any gold-skinned weapon, and how many of you pro-inscriptionists would be up-in-arms if the compromised that little aspect of the game...to get rid of the "pvp grind"
think of it as pre-ww2 europe, the anet nerf-bat as the budding german war-machine, and the players as the apathetic allies, saying to themselves "we'll let them have this round...since for now it benifits us anyway"
and think of inscriptions as poland...make your stand now before the whiners convince anet to give them EVERYTHING they want...from pvp UAS, to inscriptions, to rank, to pve elites, etc.

arcanemacabre · Oct 03, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

...as the above said...
which, is as i've said before, this is the EXACT same mistake that was made with diablo2 LoD 1.1 patch...blizzard figured it would be a good idea to cater to people clambering over their cries for handouts, and made the best items in the game easily accessible. the people who hated the hours of farming finally got what they wanted.
what happened?
blizzard effectivly nuked the upper and middle classess off of the face of the diablo2 world, and left it with nothing but the very whiners who had asked for their handouts...after a few months they got bored, and the game devulged from the best MMORPG i have EVER played, into a universally agreeable crapfest.

Yes, because having a Crystalline allows you to slaughter that many more mobs than having a collector's sword.

There is no "best items in the game" in Guild Wars. Only items that drop rarely and are seen as being 'elite'. In Diablo, if you liked how a Gladius looked, you could easily find a decent one. If you liked how a Flamberge looked, you could easily find a decent one. The items that were expensive were the uber-powerful weapons. That's how it should be in games dependant on items, such as Diablo. That's where they messed up.

In GW, items mean nothing. Skills are the only things that's important. There is no comparison here because the games' very premise is completely different. If you want an item "crapfest", there are many MMORPG's (truer ones than GW, anyday) that cater to the elitist "my weapon is more uber than yours" attitude.

Tommy · Oct 03, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

i'd like to shake your hand.
i know plenty of people who share your opinion, who are angry that anet is throwing their future options out the window, and understand it.
i, myself, would be FAR more upset with this update had it taken place a year ago, when i was arguably "upper-middle-class" than now...as it would kill 1 aspect of my metagame permenantly. now, its approaching that time in my life when gaming as a whole is coming to an end, and so personally this doesnt effect me much, regardless, its annoying because...

...as the above said...
which, is as i've said before, this is the EXACT same mistake that was made with diablo2 LoD 1.1 patch...blizzard figured it would be a good idea to cater to people clambering over their cries for handouts, and made the best items in the game easily accessible. the people who hated the hours of farming finally got what they wanted.
what happened?
blizzard effectivly nuked the upper and middle classess off of the face of the diablo2 world, and left it with nothing but the very whiners who had asked for their handouts...after a few months they got bored, and the game devulged from the best MMORPG i have EVER played, into a universally agreeable crapfest.
the same people who waste hours farming, are the same people who spend hours coming up with unique builds, different styles of play, etc, etc...when they left the game, nothing was left but morons playing cookiecutter builds handed to them, and the whole thing came down to essentially a rock, paper, scissors of FOTM builds.

i do not wish this fate upon guildwars, or its players.
if anything, i wish anet would make some even rarer skins than crystallines, rare enough towards even i would have a hard time affording one. why? working towards an end, is fun. whats the goal of a game? to beat it. and in so doing, lies the fun within...the act of ending the game experience is not fun (at least for me), its getting there thats entertaining.
all this update will end up doing is to shorten the journey by a little, and as a byproduct, shorten its lifespan. and i tell you this much, if it had not been for the fact that my collection still needed work after ch2, i would have quit then, because ch2s gameplay was so totally half-assed, that it forced MANY people to fall back on meta-game activities (collecting, pvp, farming, titles, etc). its about time anet stop knocking these things off 1 by 1.
rank is just as much a vanity as any gold-skinned weapon, and how many of you pro-inscriptionists would be up-in-arms if the compromised that little aspect of the game...to get rid of the "pvp grind"
think of it as pre-ww2 europe, the anet nerf-bat as the budding german war-machine, and the players as the apathetic allies, saying to themselves "we'll let them have this round...since for now it benifits us anyway"
and think of inscriptions as poland...make your stand now before the whiners convince anet to give them EVERYTHING they want...from pvp UAS, to inscriptions, to rank, to pve elites, etc.

I think that anet trying to make each chapter only good for less than 6 months. ppl got excited fast and got bored easy, so they buy the game play for 2 to 3 months, drop it, play something else for 3 moths and buy the next chapters. as long as anet got a good review and high score from sites like gamespots, i am sure that there will be plenty of ppl buying them... hardcores playing way too much for anet to make profit off them. anet is trying to get ripped of players like that imao. There will be no hardcores in GW, no Elitists and no traders. ppl log on to do little pve with heroes and pvp. nobody spend serious time on GW. Anet is turning GW into something like Sims Online. ppl log on sometimes to chat and log off. Anet could just want to make this game to what it should be, a casualist's game or for ppl like me have jobs in real life and couldn't play alot anymore and still wnat to play sometimes with friends.

Akhilleus · Oct 03, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

In GW, items mean nothing.

exactly.
so why do people bitch about them?
my point is, that while the items mean nothing in terms of mods, theres still a market for them for the reasons stated thruought this thread. and as i stated, lazyness is a mentality. the kind of people who want free handouts all the time, arent the kind of people you necissarily wanna be gaming with.

Tommy · Oct 03, 2006, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

exactly.
so why do people bitch about them?
my point is, that while the items mean nothing in terms of mods, theres still a market for them for the reasons stated thruought this thread. and as i stated, lazyness is a mentality. the kind of people who want free handouts all the time, arent the kind of people you necissarily wanna be gaming with.

the problem is that the hardworking ppl playing too much and consuming too much server resouces. Anet aint making money off them. the Lady ppl pay the same buck and play less or not play at all. i think anet is trying to get the lady ppl and get ripped of the hardworking ones

Two April Mornings · Oct 03, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

^then again, some of the rich hard working people have all expansions, several accounts, and character slots

Tommy · Oct 03, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

but there is still a small number of them

the majority is casulaist that play less than 1 hour per week. and the hardcores buying all chapters for all their accounts? i dont think so. they probably just got the extra accounts for storage.

Guardian of the Light · Oct 03, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

This seems to me like one of the small things people make such a big deal of.

KurtTheBehemoth · Oct 03, 2006, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynnrose

So you called down with the ass end of a straight on a paired board? Nice play, sir, nice play.

Where is this game and how do I get an invitation to it?

On topic -- as a PvP-only player, I like this (if it comes to fruition). For a game marketed as low on grind, GW certainly makes people grind a lot to get their choice of weapon skins, mods, etc. Once the market for the salvaged mods settles out, this seems like it should be pretty sweet indeed. There will still be grind involved (to get the gold to buy the items), but the time spent searching for what you want to buy should be reduced. Now if they'd just add more weapon sets and allow full weapon skins/mods choice in PvP creation . . . .

I was telling a poker story, I didn't say I was sober when it happened. But if ppl actually keep their collectors items when we a Tidal Wave like this coming straight for them, then they care more about pride than gold. I look at all the in-game items as tools. Don't worship your weapons, worship the 1000 plat in your storage.

manitoba1073 · Oct 03, 2006, 04:42 AM // 04:42

well its all a bad thing as i have stated. hell wait till whats next. yeah i bet there gonna give everyone rank 3 just cause the whiners cant get in groups for PvP. come on ppl. this wont lower the prices for a long time, in fact it will raise the prices of weapons and such. i like the idea of inscriptions but it is gonna be implemented way wrongly, if it goes like what was said in PC Gamer.
lets no joke around here, u doubt what i am saying fine, but yet from all those on this thread who have said its a great idea, y the hell havent u gotten me in game to sell junky 15^50 yet or those req 8 rares junks. ill tell u why. cause you know im right. u can get a req 8 falchion 15^50 right here and now for 15k what do u think it willl be when this inscriptions salvage comes out. itll be 50k minimum because of the mod salvageable on it. and yes the smart ones right now are buying up lots and i mean lots of these right now. as ive said i stand right now to make 10 million gold of what ive gotten alrdy for just 600k. this will not hurt the rich. so u casual gamers dont like grind, well you will love it soon, when u cant even get a crappy skin with 15^50 for cheap anymore. hell ive gotten quite a few 15^50's req 8 for 5k lately and being rare skins, to top it off. so enjoy when your haveing to pay 50k+ for even crappy skins. ive posted enough examples and no need to do any more at this time. oh for the lazy few who want to actually know how to get things like that its easy/. liek this

WTB REQ 8 weapon 15^50 for 5k thats what i call really having to grind,

PS time again GAILE ALEX where are u.

manitoba1073 · Oct 03, 2006, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

I hope all those people do leave. This isnt what Guild Wars is about. A 15^50 crystalline is no better than a 15^50 of some common skin. PvE should be about the storyline and playing through the game, not farming and chest running.

its about how we each wanna play our own way. just cause someone wants to farm hes still playing it his own way. u dont believe me read your box GW came in it stats it there clearly.
here it is for those to lazy to even look at there box.

GW prophicies box inside cover. under the craft your hero part

ITS YOUR ADVENTURE
jump right into a world of thousands where each mission is created just for you. live a fast paced adventure without travel time delay, high death penalties, or spawn camping. join with friends or play solo with a band of SKILLFULL henchmen

sounds to me i can play how i want. dont know about you.

then theres this that kills me with some posts here.
its not farm wars its guild wars or there is no economy its only made up by ppl. no class i dirext you all to open your guild wars manuals to the following pages GWP pages 107-109 GWF pages 84-88 yeap looks like theres an economy to me

then another one i see alot of here.
well anet has a set 100k per char so things shouldnt be more than that.

well lets see the maximum u can pay at one of the merchants is 100k maybe a coincidence there

and for the last time about SUP ABS. yes they were 100k anet then increased drop rates they then went down to yeap thats right class 80k average. big drop there. in fact the went to what they are now because anet made them useless. again dont believe me just do a search here you will find numerous and i mean numerous threads about them being turned to uselessness. that is the real reason why the price tanked.

arcanemacabre · Oct 03, 2006, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

exactly.
so why do people bitch about them?
my point is, that while the items mean nothing in terms of mods, theres still a market for them for the reasons stated thruought this thread. and as i stated, lazyness is a mentality. the kind of people who want free handouts all the time, arent the kind of people you necissarily wanna be gaming with.

If we want our characters to look good (to us) while using the skills this game is based around, why should we have to pay out the ass for it? It's not a 'laziness' mentality, nor is it a request of 'free handouts' (which I don't understand how items going from 3-4 million down to a few hundred thousand is a 'free handout'), it's a 'casual gamer' mentality.

Here's what I want to be able to do:

I'm out doing a mission with some friends. During that mission, I find an item I've never seen before - a Platinum Blade. I go "Wow, that is a really cool looking skin, and it could go really well with my warrior!" This particular Platinum Blade is purple, and ends up having +18% damage while health is below 50%, and a fortitude +27 mod, with Req.10.

I think to myself, "Hmm, all I need to do is get me a nice inscription, let's say 15^50, or 15 while enchanted, and a couple of nice mods." Now, this is where my 'hunt to find the perfect weapon' begins. I have the sword I like, it's pretty, it's nice, it will look good on my warrior. All I need to do is either casually find the mods I need, or buy them.

Finding that particular sword is no incredible feat. It happens frequently. Enough to where I could probably buy it off someone real cheap. Buying mods is a bit expensive, but as has been said, you don't need max anything. I can get a 14^50 inscription for probably pretty cheap, and it would work fine.

Do I want this handed to me? No. Do I want skins like this, that I like, to become a little more readily available and cheaper? Absolutely. I don't have enough time in-game to be able to afford something like that Platinum Blade (with mods and the 15^50 or 14^50), and still be able to afford armor, other weapons and shields and off-hands, etc.

This one Platinum Blade is just one weapon of the many I want for all my characters. I don't want just one nice looking weapon, I'd like to be able to pick and choose. I'm not asking for handouts or free anything, just asking for items that are a little more within a decent price bracket.

However, if it doesn't happen, I won't complain. I really don't care if items actually become cheaper or not. It doesn't affect my gameplay, you're right about that. It's just something I want, and I know others want as well. It would be nice. On the flip-side, I don't see why anyone else would complain, either. It shouldn't affect you or anyone else. After all, it's just virtual money just like it's just pretty skins. <-EDIT: just bolding to emphasize what I feel is the highlight of this post.

Gli · Oct 03, 2006, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by supaet

Just look at the cost of FOW armor, they're worth more gold than your storage can hold. It is reasonable for some items to cost 100+xx ectos because there are fow armor! how many weapons like that you have to sell to get one set?

FOW armor costs 60/75K and materials. You don't have to sell a single 100k+ weapon for that, just play the game. Whether or not there are weapons in the game that players decided are worth more than 100k, doesn't change the total amount of gold in the economy. The nominal value of items doesn't affect the total number of FOW armors that the player base can afford, because there's still going to be the same amount of materials and the same amount of gold. If this change causes the wealth to be spread around differently, some people will just have get their FOW duds in a different way.

What's that I just said, 'working' to buy a FOW armor? How awful!

Trying to buy a perfect rare skin, a 20/20 sundering upgrade and a +30 fortitude upgrade as cheap as you can, sticking it all together and hawking it for 100k+xx ectos for hours on end won't make you rich anymore? Oh no, the game is broken now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

Take the only items out that sell for 100k and your left with a ruined economy.
More then a handful of player have over 100k, and its easy enough to get to that lvl in game play. It's not over night but it does happen.

The millions of gold is still going to be there, it'll just mean nothing. Those players will have no items to waste there money on.
I don't see that as an economy.

That's what money sinks are for. If the people holding on to tons of cash really don't see any game feature they would enjoy spending their cash on, they should ask themselves if they're playing the right game. Nightfall is likely going to feature more money sinks anyway.

Phoenix Ex · Oct 03, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

And the materials alone cost over a million.

I can say the same thing, "ohh, you can't get a skin that does nothing over a collector's item, the game's broken now! QQ"

You have to work for a SKIN that most green have and doesn't affect gameplay effectiveness one bit, how awful!

Whatever so called money sink they put in better be flashy to the level of PvP emote and not something like the title system where no one ever sees it unless they are looking for it.

Gli · Oct 03, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

And the materials alone cost over a million.

But you don't have to buy them, they drop reliably to anyone playing in the right areas. They don't require the existence of items with vastly inflated prices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

I can say the same thing, "ohh, you can't get a skin that does nothing over a collector's item, the game's broken now! QQ"

You could, but it would be meaningless, because obviously you can right now and will still be able to after the assumed changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

You have to work for a SKIN that most green have and doesn't affect gameplay effectiveness one bit, how awful!

Yeah, that is quite awful, but something tells me you're being sarcastic. People will still have to work for their items, you know... the difference will be that there will be less gold flowing to the people 'hardcore farming' or 'speculating'. I guess that idea must be unbearable to some.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

Whatever so called money sink they put in better be flashy to the level of PvP emote and not something like the title system where no one ever sees it unless they are looking for it.

It always comes down to this it seems... Trying to impress other people. What happened to playing games because we enjoy playing games?